Curse

DragonRogue · Nov 18, 2009, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Earlier today I was reading a thread here from a disgruntled player to Anet on how he felt that some classes of PVE have been neglected, or nerfed, to the point that most average teams refuse to take them in parties, because they just no longer fit the desired team mechanics for most areas. He didnt state the class he was playing, but claimed his profession could almost never get a group. In the middle of responding to his post, it was deleted from guru. I wont go into any more detail about his letter specifically, other than to wonder what classes do you feel just dont have a place in GW anymore and why?

We all know that builds of yesterday have been replaced, and what once used to be the best and most powerful, no longer work at all, or have been nerfed into uselessness. IE Barrage/ Pet Rangers in Urgoz and Tombs, Shadow Form Elem farmers, Etc. And that some builds now soley dominate the game. IE 600 Monks, Perma-Sins. We also know that even in balanced team play, certain classes have always been prefered over others. Monks, Necros, Warriors and Elems have always had a slot in almost every team.

To me, it seems that if you dont have a Perma Sin or Monk you will never make any money in this game. For elite missions... Urgoz, you can pretty much be any profession, but how often do you see a Ranger in the Deep or in the DoA other than foundry? Until Perma SF came along, Sins couldnt get a group at all either. Most Dervs ive seen trying to tank have failed miserably in many areas, whether due to being too dependant on enchants that get stripped or lack of understanding on how to play them, i have no idea. Ive never played one, but when im heal monking, if i see one in a group i just cringe.

It also seems that most classes now have just one build that is acceptable and if you dont run it....*KICK*. Rits are now just Spirit Spammers, Monks for RoJ or UA, Mesmers Cryers, Warriors Hundred Blades, Paragons Imbagon, Necros Bip or SS, etc. I know that Rangers have Splinter Barrage but it just doesnt feel like it does much anymore and compared to the Sins Crit/Barrage, pale in comparisson.

Im sure if someone did the research on what classes held the most GWAMM titles we would see many of a few classes and a few of the rest. So again...

Has some class been nerfed or ignored to the point that it no longer has a place in GW? What Skills should be buffed to make it able to be part of a balanced team again? Is there a class that you just wont take into a team build?

Short · Nov 18, 2009, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Assassin. :3

upier · Nov 18, 2009, 08:07 AM // 08:07

8 man parties.
10 classes.

There is no way to fit in everyone.

Cuilan · Nov 18, 2009, 08:09 AM // 08:09

It really seems assassins are getting all the love and attention from Anet.

It would be nice if Anet would look into the vast amount of mesmer skills and make them at least somewhat useful in PvE. Inspiration really needs to stop being nerfed deep miles underground and be fixed to work well with mesmers.

Paragons, um. All they have is SY.

Upier, your post is pretty pointless, no offense.

upier · Nov 18, 2009, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Upier, your post is pretty pointless, no offense.

For each area in the game you should always be able to find a single party build that will be better than everything else.
With 10 classes and 8 man parties, at least 2 guys will ALWAYS be left out. The only way to include a guy into that party is for him to replace a guy ALREADY in the party.

Now if the question on the other hand is if any of the classes is so poor that it's unable to contribute to the success of the party and is always better left in the outpost - then the answer is no.
PvE is easy enough that it doesn't require perfect play at any given time.

idril isildra · Nov 18, 2009, 08:37 AM // 08:37

paragons, all they really have is SY

BlackSephir · Nov 18, 2009, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Mesmers and maybe rangers.
Degen, interrupts and e-denial? Not so hot in pve.

Horace Slughorn · Nov 18, 2009, 09:18 AM // 09:18

I think each profession over the years has found its niche. In our alliance, which is mainly oriented toward high-end pve and SC, there are a variety of team builds that accomodate the full range of professions.

That said, I don't think every profession does (or should) perform the exact same role in the game. In DOA, we take mesmers criers because fast-casting is win, and necros because FOC is big damage. In Bogroots SC, my poor mesmer has no place, but the ranger and paragon get to stretch their legs.

If you spend the time, which is quite minimal, to raise up a few characters in addition to your beloved main, you will find yourself in a good position to join a variety of groups. And, the occasions that you do get to use your main toon will be all the more special.

paddymew · Nov 18, 2009, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Primary dervishes are at a loss with their primary attribute. The only thing it's good for is arcane orders, which can be done by heroes.

jonnieboi05 · Nov 18, 2009, 10:44 AM // 10:44

WTB buffs for: Assassins (not including crappy SF), Mesmers (degen and e-denial isn't all that great in PvE.. Nor are interupts. Things Die too fast as it is in "Hard" Mode), and Rangers.

~LeNa~

Mikkelet · Nov 18, 2009, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Mostly dervs...

But PvE isn't the problem. PvP is, in which I think the rit needs a buff...

jonnieboi05 · Nov 18, 2009, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikkelet

Mostly dervs...

But PvE isn't the problem. PvP is, in which I think the rit needs a buff...

Erm... It may get boring quite fast but Rits were just buffed by reintroducing spirit spamming... Just thought I'd let you know...

~LeNa~

upier · Nov 18, 2009, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

WTB buffs for: Assassins (not including crappy SF)

Having played my new assassin lately, I would absolutely welcome buffs to this guy.
Sure, I can kill obscenely fast already, but why shouldn't I be able to kill even faster?

AngeliqueSynner · Nov 18, 2009, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

Erm... It may get boring quite fast but Rits were just buffed by reintroducing spirit spamming... Just thought I'd let you know...

~LeNa~

Spirit spam was a PvE buff.
PvP they still take 3 - 5 second to cast and about half that to kill. :/

zwei2stein · Nov 18, 2009, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikkelet

Mostly dervs...

But PvE isn't the problem. PvP is, in which I think the rit needs a buff...

PvP Rits are viable, mostly seen in GvG.

drkn · Nov 18, 2009, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Mesmers and maybe rangers.
Degen, interrupts and e-denial? Not so hot in pve.

Quote:

Mesmers Cryers

and CoP got nerfed ^^

i seriously run the generic spiritmancer build on my mes rather than the domination line now, it's just faster and most mes skills suck completely out there in pve.

Konker2020 · Nov 18, 2009, 12:51 PM // 12:51

I personally don't feel that any of the professions really need a buff, as Upier said, you can't fit 10 people into an 8 man party. So, what I think needs to happen is...

People need to be more open on what to accept into a group, and those playing for acceptance need to be innovative, creative and effective. Everyone swears that everything has been done, but if that's the case, why do new builds keep coming up? Yes, the meta changes with skill updates. Yes, some skills get nerfed out of existence while others are buffed to extremes. But, when people get rejected from a team because the only build that is accepted isn't being run by them, it's becoming too much. When I play with my guild members, we are open to any profession, and to different builds, and believe me... some of these builds that others laugh at may work better than you think.

This forum is a prime example, go look at the Campfire section and you will notice that there are full-scale arguments about whether or not Discordway is effective, and how if you don't run it because "there are faster ways" and you would rather not run what has been considered one of the biggest gimmick teams, you are shunned and ridiculed because apparently, you are seriously misinformed and have no place in the community. It is possible for new things to arise, and it is possible that some builds are going to be better than others in certain areas. But that doesn't mean that everything else is useless. Take paragons, most won't accept paragons unless they are running Imba, while paragons are still decent party buffers aside from spamming "SY!" and in most cases, they can put out a decent amount of damage.

Basically, I guess all I'm trying to say is that the OP is correct in the matter that the community shuns those that don't run "the current meta", of course there are going to be poor players with bad builds, but that doesn't account for the entire populace.

Zahr Dalsk · Nov 18, 2009, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Any class can do PvE well.

The players are what's discriminating, and if there's even the slightest advantage of taking a particular group (even if it excludes a large group of people) they will take it.

You want to play the game? You help ask for seven hero parties so we can do the elite missions without player discrimination.

Marzipan Marci · Nov 18, 2009, 01:51 PM // 13:51

The current pve-metagame is already too easy compeared to the game style two-three years ago. PvE is too easy now. Nothing needs a buff.

Verene · Nov 18, 2009, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

and CoP got nerfed ^^

i seriously run the generic spiritmancer build on my mes rather than the domination line now, it's just faster and most mes skills suck completely out there in pve.

People have done the calculations on damage from CoP, and it actually causes more damage now with the degen after.

However, since it can't be spiked like it used to, people consider it nerfed.